00:00.00 archpodnet Okay, welcome back 1 more time to the cn archeology podcast episode 287 and Doug has been talking about the strange wonderful world of the U K Education system and we'll just keep. Going so Doug just just continue. This is this has been a total eye opener and super interesting for me. 00:22.58 Doug But so actually it's kind of built up. So now that I've given you a lot of background. Um I can actually sort of explain the masters which basically there's 2 types of masters and it's the same. It's the same sort of setup that we've just gone over for sort of undergraduate. You know the courses. Well what you call modules classes course what we call course. So what they call a degree would be a course you take a course in archeology or yeah, wherever that is and that's actually your degree they call it modules which would be yeah like our classes what we'd probably call courses. Well um, you know one or two hours a week for each class. 00:47.92 archpodnet Um. 00:54.12 archpodnet To cry. 00:59.62 Doug Um, maybe 10 to 12 in a week of hours maybe a little less um, not a lot of face time. Um, you know twelve weeks ish but sometimes it's not really a real twelve weeks because yeah, the first week is sort of a blowoff week and then the last week you know. 01:16.47 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 01:18.56 Doug It's shortened. It's about 2 semesters and usually same as an undergraduate in your masters. It'll be either a test you tend to do a lot more essays by the time you get to a master's at least in archeology. Um, but yeah again, it is like you turn in 1 paper and that is that's it. That's that. 01:27.73 archpodnet Oh yeah. 01:35.84 archpodnet Yeah. 01:38.31 Doug Determines what happens in your in your course. Um and then that's basically it so you have two semesters. Um, maybe like 5 or 6 modules. It depends how big the modules are so that's you know, maybe 8 to 12 hours of like. Contact with your um well professor which again has a slightly different thing like when they call it use a term professor it means full professor whereas like your your assistant professor would be like a lecture and then sometimes they have a thing called like associate or reading or a reader. 02:08.99 archpodnet Um, okay. 02:16.11 archpodnet M. 02:16.33 Doug Which is like your associate professor. Um, and so ah and again, there's been some americanization where some terms have been imported. So I think like Bristol does like assistant professor associate professor and full professor. Um, but for the most part yet. It's like lecture is like what you'd call your assistant. 02:29.41 archpodnet Right. 02:36.00 Doug Um, and yeah, so yeah, so yeah, but like so i' ah I going use the americanism. But yeah your your contact with your professor. Usually it's actually a lecture is going to be that and you do that and then if you're so that's for taught like you know you do like you know. 02:36.20 archpodnet Dude. Okay, yeah, I'm trying to get all the terminology correct in my head. Yeah. I mean. 02:54.85 Doug Depends on how many modules how many credits are in the module and then you have to end up you know with the same amount of credits which are not. They don't they're not the same as credit hours. But you know you break it up. Um, and then you do that and then you have a dissertation. Ah, sort of thesis that you do at the end and that is you know it depends on the on the degree but for a taught maybe between 12 or 14000 at the low end and 20000 max words? Yeah, oh yeah also oh god yeah 03:23.96 archpodnet This is words yeah about how many pages about how many pages is. 03:31.78 Doug So that's it um, another thing is in the u k it's all by words so you don't turn in essays by pages you turn in by words your essay like for 1 of those modules might be 3000 words might be 1500 um and and that doesn't quite work because then you know you can do larger font like. 03:33.30 archpodnet Um, yeah, okay, right. 03:43.38 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah. 03:51.60 Doug People aren't fiddling with like the margins of fonts. There's a standard you know romans 12 font a double space stuff like that. But um, yeah, you you don't end up with the America where where people are slightly trying to adjust little bits of font here and there to to hit that that page limits. Um, yeah. 03:54.98 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah. 04:08.35 archpodnet Um, yeah, that's cool. 04:10.33 Doug So it's all by words and so yeah, it's yeah, it's it could be as low as like 10000 words up to about 20 but there's also sort of a um, a masters of philosophy which you could take a standone so like that'd be a masters of arts or a masters of science. 04:18.40 archpodnet Um, yeah, that. 04:24.30 archpodnet Um. 04:29.77 Doug Luckily those terms are the same. It's not different. That's your top masters. You can also do an m phil masters of philosophy which doesn't really have any teaching you might have maybe 1 or 2 modules and it'd be like a 30000 um ah word sort of thesis. 04:30.44 archpodnet Right. 04:37.83 archpodnet Um. 04:49.29 Doug And that you could either take a standalone or you can take that as part of your ph d which is supposed to be 3 years so you do like your first year you do. Um, if you don't if you didn't do a masters so I did a top masters and they didn't make me do the m fill. Again for my ph d um, but if you were to go straight from undergraduate into a ph d which you can do. Um you don't have to do like ah a top masters. You basically do a 30000 sort of mini ph d thesis 30000 words and you they look at it. 05:12.50 archpodnet Um, there. Yeah. 05:25.37 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:28.69 Doug And you your outcomes are either. They're like you fail you fail everything they kick you out. Of course you you somewhat fail in that they fail you to an m phil. So like they're not going to continue your ph h d and you you end out with an MPhil you can also take an infi standone as well. So. 05:34.88 archpodnet Um. 05:37.30 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 05:44.67 archpodnet Right. 05:48.32 Doug You gotta be careful because some people will be like oh did you fail out of Ph D and they're like no I just took an M you know, just ah, an asked? Yeah yeah. 05:54.25 archpodnet Yes, okay, so the um, the United States system is actually vaguely similar on this. What's funny is as we were talking I did some quick calculations in terms of your word counts and I actually think the length of a master's thesis in both countries is vaguely similar. 06:09.52 Doug Who who did yeah that's about yeah. 06:11.50 archpodnet You know, like like we're talking 75 pages that kind of thing you know it's that's that's what my I think I think my master thesis was 70 pages you know like that's that's it's so so we're not talking crazy differences. It's just the labels for everything are different. The um the u k system. The whole I won't go into how it compares you know specifically to the Us system because it'll just get way in the weeds. But but it's not far off in terms of um oh what in the Us is be like oh we're just giving you a terminal masters instead of being able or. We're just throwing sort of throwing you a master's degree instead of allowing you to continue on to the ph d you know so it's not a complete waste of your time but ah yes, yeah. 06:46.83 Doug Yeah, yeah, very similar system. It's just less hot time. So like yeah, usually. So if you're in a terminal masters which be maybe 2 years of teaching. Or or being in talk horses and ph d you'd probably do your first 2 years and then get into your test and yeah, yeah, so receiving teaching. Yeah that I yeah. 07:07.58 archpodnet Um, when you say 2 years I'm I'm I'm sorry to break in just from when you say 2 years of teaching what does that does that mean going to class for 2 years Okay, see when you say 2 years of teaching I feel like wait. You're a you're a t a for 2 years right? So it's no, it's. 2 years of going to class. Okay, yeah, sorry continue. Yeah. 07:23.70 Doug Yeah, so in the United States it's between about two or three years of where you're that and then you know it'll go on for like another couple of years where you just work on your ah dissertation or thesis or whatever you want to call it. Um and you know in the United States supposed to sort of end at 5 but people go six seven you know it drags out. 07:34.30 archpodnet Um, yes, yes. 07:39.20 archpodnet Nobody goes 5 Yeah, it's like never happens. 07:43.24 Doug Yeah, again in the u k it's it's a similar thing where you know it's supposed to be 3 years and again if you so if you could do like a top masters and then sort of skip the m fill part but it's still supposed to be 3 years but it's 3 years straight research. 07:59.84 archpodnet Ah. 07:59.89 Doug Like there there is you don't have to ever take any classes if you don't want to you might they might give you like some really basic your first year like a how to do research throwaway like it doesn't count. It doesn't count as like ah actual like credits like it's that guy. 08:05.83 archpodnet Um, right. 08:12.92 archpodnet Wow. Okay, yeah, um, yeah. 08:19.14 Doug I account for your your ph d now everyone does that and basically again much more of a sink or swim is not a lot buildup and so you actually have to have like and you know like and then you you ask people like maybe spend that first two years of of like while they're taking um. 08:21.56 archpodnet Right? Yeah, so. 08:38.47 Doug Sort of classes and before they do their big sort of exams where they either decide if you have a terminal masters or not um, you sort of work on your ideas you you maybe not have a fully formed one. Um, there's not really that chance you pretty much have to go in with a a thesis and then you work on that. 08:44.98 archpodnet Ah. 08:53.54 archpodnet Yeah Wow woo. 08:57.75 Doug And you can sort of revise it and some people change you know topics dramatically and it takes longer. But yeah, it's basically there's nothing else if you go straight to a Ph D Um, basically that's it all you're doing is your thesis nothing else. But. 09:02.30 archpodnet Yeah. 09:13.50 archpodnet So you just right? So there's basically so what I'm getting is in the Uk system whether it's masters or ph d you go straight in and you're just researching for your like project. There's no like classes and stuff really, you're just like researching right. 09:25.93 Doug Yeah, yeah, if it's not taught so there's a top masters and then there's like the MPhil which is yeah again, peer research and ph d which again they might knock you down to an m fill also peer research. it's it's um there's there's there's nothing there. 09:31.48 archpodnet Um, yeah. 09:38.85 archpodnet Um, yeah. 09:43.00 Doug They do also a lot less um sort of taing or you know ah research assistant stuff like ah you you don't actually get a lot of practice. They're pushing more towards it so they're now offering more sort of studentship where you you know if you teach 1 or 2 classes. 09:47.49 archpodnet Um, right? yeah. 10:02.80 Doug More towards the Us but probably still again, not as tense because sometimes like people in the us will be teaching like 4 and 4 you know four classes each semester while they're doing their ph d which is insane. Um, so it's still less but you it used to be and it used to be almost nothing so like. 10:03.91 archpodnet He. Yes, yes. 10:19.33 Doug People would basically come out of their ph d programs not so much anymore. But you know 2 decades ago. It was almost unheard of to do any teaching. Um, and so people would come out and then they'd get a lectureship and then that was it. They dropped you in and like well that first year of teaching you got to learn how to teach? um. 10:25.85 archpodnet Um, yeah. 10:35.37 archpodnet Right? jeez. 10:38.44 Doug There was no practice none that sort of being a ta none of that it's getting more towards the American system as it's converging where you can now there are now more funding but also oh ah, a whole lot less funding and again this is because they're now charging a lot more money for degrees. Um, but yeah. 10:42.91 archpodnet Yeah. 10:51.76 archpodnet Yeah, ah. 10:58.00 Doug You know in the us and there are certain programs I think um maybe it's like vanderbilt or Vassar or something like they don't accept an any ph d unless you have fully funded um and and you know in the United States like a lot of people will be partially funded some way like either's you know a few a few. 11:05.99 archpodnet Right? right? Yeah I was yeah. 11:17.90 Doug Yeah, the few people look at like the National Science Foundation whatever ph d stuff there's a couple of those couple other funds but you know a lot of it is like ta teaching undergraduate courses or sorry you know classes and all that stuff. Yeah, um when i. 11:26.54 archpodnet Yep, no, it's that's true. That's what it was you know? um. 11:33.54 Doug I went and this was about a decade ago for my ph d they really didn't have that they had about 2 um, right? after me, they started 2 people who basically got um, part funding and actually learning I was doed by ph d is I split funding within someone else I didn't actually have to teach. Um, ah, ah taught a little bit for the money. Um, but they they'd given out like that year. Maybe there was like 3 resources of funding and 2 of us split one of them. Um in archeology out of like maybe 10 or 15 people. You know so like um. 11:53.48 archpodnet Um. 12:06.70 archpodnet Yeah. 12:12.56 Doug You know in the states at least you know there are statistics I think it's like 60 to 70% maybe different between university will probably have some sort of funding usually like a ta ship or a research assistant or something like that whereas in the yeah uk it's almost exactly switched where maybe only 2 12:26.20 archpodnet Right. 12:32.22 Doug 10 twenty thirty percent of the students will be on some sort of funding that way. Um, and then this but this comes back to like the sort of money thing because so again, this was years ago, but you can go there and if you're thinking. Yeah if you have to go out of state in the us you know forty Fifty Sixty thousand 12:34.45 archpodnet Ah, yeah, damn this is yeah ah. 12:52.10 Doug For her year. That's two years maybe 3 for a masters where even if you're going to the Uk where it's like 20000 which you know is probably about 25000 us that's it's only for 1 year it's It's a hell hel of a it's a great. 13:09.27 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah. 13:11.99 Doug Deal pricewise and potentially ph d wise as well. Like if you can't get funding in the states only paying for 3 years and they only usually charge you for 3 years so if you'd like do the fourth or like a fifth year um to charge like a nominal fee of like. 13:29.19 archpodnet Right? yeah. 13:29.60 Doug Ah, Thousand pounds or something but it's not like a full charge for the full three years um and so if you if you have no funding in the states. Um, and usually you know like especially if you're going to crm where like you're actually looking for a terminal masters. You're not looking necessari necessari they go to a ph d and they don't. 13:42.50 archpodnet Right? right? yeah. 13:47.20 Doug There's not. There's not as many opportunities to get funding for that. Um, usually it makes sense and I remember because like you know so I went to u and m and un and m thinks it itself a bit higher and mightier than it is and wants to be and they wanted to start University New Mexico 14:01.55 archpodnet Um, yeah. 14:05.59 Doug They don't accept any of their undergraduates into their master's programs except very rarely or at least when I went um so I was I was looking because so that they they only wanted undergraduates from Berkeley and and Michigan and um, no, that's that was the those was their sort of in you know academic. 14:11.34 archpodnet Um, yeah. 14:23.45 archpodnet That's that's silly. Yeah. 14:25.45 Doug Thing. Yeah, but so I there was no way I was ever going to go be able to go to u and m I might have been able to go to like New Mexico state I was looking at out of state basically well eastern possibly you know there's a couple of options but small state and the pro closest one to me. 14:35.56 archpodnet Um. 14:43.74 Doug So I'd I'd have to move to like you know a couple hundred miles away to a different university different town or basically go out of state. So for me, it made so much more sense actually when I came over to the Uk I was actually playing on just doing one-year masters. So I could get the secretary of interior's qualifications and come back. 15:00.13 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 15:03.27 Doug Where M things happened I ended up getting partially funded for Ph D So I was like well it was also the middle of you know the great recession I was like yeah, there's not any jobs I might as well just stick it out a little bit but for people who are coming back? Um, yeah. 15:11.92 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, this is what I'm curious about because it's like you know I these these differences in the systems like what what I'm kind of getting is like all right? the the the the u k system is no bs you just go in and you just like research your project and you finish it. It seems like you know the finished product whether it be a masters or ph d and the actual research is not too terribly different but the but the um so the knowledge in those places would be about the same. But. But in terms of kind of obviously a more broad base education the ability to teach the sort of heaviness of each degree like like the the ones in the United States seem a little bit heavy or so I'm I'm curious like like canned degrees from the Uk work in the Us. . 15:57.49 Doug Yeah, yeah, so all you have to do is cause you know and the Us um, degrees work on accreditation. So you either have national accreditation which is surprisingly considered less So love like community colleges have national accreditation groups. 16:05.49 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 16:14.95 archpodnet Um. 16:15.90 Doug A and then you have the regional ones which tend to do the 4 year and masters and and those tend to be held in a higher degree but any degree again the United States works in a way of like you know it's a union. It's it's ah it's a union of fifty states each state does their own um own education. 16:27.57 archpodnet Yeah. 16:34.36 Doug But to be able to be able to accept and so you can you know if you you get a green in Alabama you can work in Alaska um, it's accreditation and all you have to do is when you come back to the United States you pay 1 of those accredit accrediting bodies. Um, when I looked at it was like maybe two hundred bucks it's probably like a thousand now. Um. 16:40.89 archpodnet Um, ah yes. 16:53.67 archpodnet Um. 16:54.17 Doug You know, inflation and else that was like a decade ago. Um, but you know you just come back. You pay it. They accreditate your degree and it will count for any anyone who like any federal agency or state agency that requires a degree That's it all you have to do is pay that little extra. 17:09.30 archpodnet Right. 17:13.80 Doug Some people do not know that they need to do that. They seem to know like if you're going over there just budgets find out how much it costs. It's not you know, not it's couple hundred. It's not too much get that and they have to accept it work. Yeah yeah. 17:14.74 archpodnet Okay. 17:21.36 archpodnet Right? Yeah, yeah, that is so huge like god people you know, advanced students going into this. They need to know that they need to go that and know that like out of the gate. It's like if you're going to the u k. You need to know that you can get your degree accredited and it will count I will say you know coming sometimes it's a little difficult too I think for people to get their degrees in the U K because to us in the Us it looks thinner. You know like so on the like when you hear the the time frame you're like. 17:53.51 Doug Yeah, that's your. 17:57.70 archpodnet That just is not doesn't have the depth of a US degree so sometimes I think if you're in like a hiring situation somebody with a degree from the United States might have an edge so it's but I would still go to the u k yeah sorry. 18:09.37 Doug Well I probably more than that. Yeah I'd say more than that. So I hear is the term I I love it. Um, and not as a sarcastical love I do find it. Funny is is a drive by degree is what it's called you. You go over and get that 1 year masters um 18:14.54 archpodnet Yeah. 18:20.93 archpodnet Um, yes, oh yeah, I've heard that. Yeah yeah, yeah. 18:26.64 Doug And there's definitely discrimination. So if people are hiring based on degrees. They're definitely going to look at that and be like oh your degree is not worth as much. But once you're in crm like it's true like even if you if you go straight through Masters or you know, undergraduate Masters and Ph d. 18:33.80 archpodnet M. 18:46.48 Doug You're going to be a tech. No one's no one's going to hire you and you're getting hired. You're not getting hired on that degree really they're they're kind of like okay, whatever you're going to get. You're being hired on have you ever dug have you done CRM before and so yeah, oh that's huge. 18:48.30 archpodnet Right? ah. 18:51.94 archpodnet I Think yeah. 19:00.65 archpodnet Um, and and serum locally. Usually yeah yeah. 19:04.95 Doug So that's that's another thing that can kind of hurt you is if you go across overseas and you get experience overseas um you know that's a biggest complaint in like the and crm in the Us and it's a big complaint in the Uk as well for archeology over here when you're doing development lead is they're like yeah okay so you dug in cyprus. 19:13.73 archpodnet Oh. 19:21.71 archpodnet Right. 19:23.81 Doug But has nothing to do with the UK but again if you don't have that experience. Um, yeah, if you don't have actually professional experience. You're pretty much in the same boat. Maybe they're going to hire the local degree or the person who did the local field school over you and there's gonna be that discrimination. 19:39.95 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah. 19:42.89 Doug But as soon as you have your first Crm job. You're you're most likely and again different employs are different ways. Some people are still snotty and um, you know uppity and all that stuff. But for the most part when it comes to that master. It's like oh can you turn that in to get permitted. 19:51.56 archpodnet Mm. 19:59.57 archpodnet Yes, that's. 20:01.47 Doug And as long as you have your degree accredited. That's all they're going to care about that's not like if if you're looking at the person with like 10 years of experience but a Uk degree and someone with 2 years of experience by a us degree. They're going to take that person with 10 years of um, ah say why say experience like cr m. 20:20.39 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally I think I think you're totally right that that's how I would play this game. It's like I would I would get the 1 year masters but then think of it as it fulfills that secretary of the interior you know, um. 20:20.69 Doug US you know they're always going to go with that. It's always going to be that local experience. It's going to matter. Um, so yeah. 20:38.40 archpodnet Stipulation right? You're not being hired on your degree necessarily yet. It's like you get the degree then you get the experience and then you can use the degree as like kind of the icing on the cake to be like yes I also have a master's degree and if if for some reason you could sorry if you if for some reason you could do actual your degree. 20:49.28 Doug Or you know experienced. 20:57.26 archpodnet Even though it's in the u k on US stuff that would be all the better if to make the world's most you know dynamic ser m person. But anyway that's what I would do? yeah. 21:04.81 Doug Well, it's it's it's what I did I chose my um I actually chose my dissertation at both for masses and Phd locations back in New Mexico so I would have that employability because that plan was always to come back. 21:15.23 archpodnet Um. 21:19.80 archpodnet Right. 21:20.91 Doug Um, and also like there's there's also people to like Lester does like an online degree. Um, and there'll be people and I know a lot of people in crm who basically you know after their work. They'll come back and they'll do the online degree just so they can get that matched so they'll have a couple of years of experience they'll be field teching maybe crewchiing you know, depending where you are and. 21:26.92 archpodnet Um, yeah. 21:32.99 archpodnet M. 21:39.47 archpodnet Right. 21:40.40 Doug Permits and stuff. But if they need to get that extra bump again. Um, even if you're doing it part time. It's 2 years as opposed to like a 4 year part time. It's online and you can basically do it sort of you know on your own and still cheaper than most places in the states. 21:51.80 archpodnet Um, yeah. 21:56.55 archpodnet Right. 21:59.10 Doug And if you just need to get that degree and you don't want to give up like you know, go and spend a year just by yourself. You can do those online options and again you're gonna have that experience and then that's the best thing I think where people run into problems is like they maybe did an undergraduate actually I shouldn't say that because. 22:03.70 archpodnet Yeah, right. 22:17.73 Doug Um, out of my cohort. Um I was the only one who had who came over who actually I took a year off between my undergraduate and masters I did crm. Um I was the only 1 and actually a couple of people who came over. Um. Basically just gone straight from undergraduate into masters did the 1 year went back got accredited and um I mean 2 of them were are in archeology now. It's typical of a lot of courses. You know, not everyone continues in the career. 22:52.86 archpodnet Um, yeah. 22:55.47 Doug Didn't have any problems One of them was a Pi Unfortunately I believe they got injured and now can't um it had to do with ah basically balance stuff inner ear thing. So um. 23:01.17 archpodnet The. 23:08.79 archpodnet M. 23:12.65 Doug Basically as far as I understand can't go back to to archeology now. But um, they had got all the way up to pi level in five years six years um and that was going straight undergraduate UKMasters coming back going to CRM and did not. 23:13.55 archpodnet Yeah. Right? yeah. 23:31.72 Doug Affect their career at all. Um I mean that's actually quite quite fast to go up to a Pi other other. Yeah yeah. 23:31.95 archpodnet Right? Oh yeah and I can see how that world works I could see how that works you know what? I mean I would just I would caution people just a little to beware beware like online degrees and that kind of stuff because. It works for what we're talking about like if you play this game just right? like what we're talking about you're like yeah, that's the time to do the the when your masters the online degree that kind of thing but in the broader World I Always recommend an on ground degree to online right? if you have and if you have a choice you know. 23:48.47 Doug No. 24:04.32 Doug Yeah I mean there'll be less stigma against it and and again, yeah, it's all about playing the yeah, it's also it's all about playing like well we probably don't have enough time to jump into that that topic. Oh you, you drop that you got that bar right? and there I'd like to argue with you vote red. Yeah. 24:09.46 archpodnet Um, yeah, and you'll learn more. 24:16.62 archpodnet I Know I All we can do that next time. Yeah I just stepped in your back right? at the end I was waiting totally That's a good one. Um. 24:23.59 Doug Yeah, ah well'll say that for the next podcast. The great debate. Yeah, um, but I would say yeah you know you play the game. We're talking about playing the game I'd also say it's not going to affect you either for if you're going into academia as well because I've I've. 24:34.50 archpodnet Yeah. 24:42.61 archpodnet Mm. 24:43.53 Doug I've done the numbers various publication reports I think I put out my blog where I looked at every every person who did a Ph you know everyone teaching archeology in the Us. Um, and there's you know a couple of percentage of those people got their degrees in the U K Um I think the U K is the next. 24:55.80 archpodnet Ah. 24:58.82 archpodnet Right? right. 25:03.21 Doug Biggest it's like Canada because you know obviously so close and stuff like that. But you it does not hasn't really had effect same for like you us degrees going across to the Uk to teach that you know it's it's only a couple of percentage points. It's a couple dozen people. It's not a lot. Um. 25:07.88 archpodnet Um, yeah. 25:14.46 archpodnet Who. Yeah. 25:22.10 Doug But it's not one of those things where like the US has totally blocked out anyone who's ever gotten a UK degree and they can't they can't teach at all. Yeah. 25:27.93 archpodnet No oh not at all and and I no no and I work with those people from time to time they're around like I see them in local California archeology from time to time and I definitely see them like when I work in Belize you know, like ah so yeah I don't want people to think that it's some just it's a. Ah, dark hole and there's no way out or something not at all I I see those people. Um so dude with that I guess yeah, so. 25:47.11 Doug Yeah, would probably yeah, we're at 25 minutes man we've we've gone over. 25:57.40 archpodnet I guess to wrap it up. Doug did I just thought that was fascinating. Thank you for talking about that. My students have asked me this my entire career and I had like you know, no idea what like what to tell them? Um, ah my my last I guess my my last um. Question as we wrap up you you just mentioned your blog. You know for a moment. What's what's the ah title of your blog like where do I find your blog. Oh Doug's archeology there. You go. 26:20.40 Doug Oh man, it's pretty simple. It's Doug's archeology but you'd have to go. Yeah, you'd have to go back that I did that oh maybe like 2014 that analysis and stuff. Yeah, it's it's buried in there. but yeah um but yeah I mean I looked at it and yeah, it has no effect. 26:30.40 archpodnet Um, that's cool. Yeah, no, that's good. 26:37.99 Doug There's there's other a degree in this day and age um is there's definitely anottiness. Ah ah turning up noses about where you get degrees. You can't avoid that but that happens internally you know people always put harvard up of you. 26:50.22 archpodnet Right? yeah. 26:57.25 Doug Ah, Andrew what is the community college you teach at now. What's what's the name of it I forget which which is yeah yeah, but I mean like to be honest, like you probably give a much better education that anyone would receive and and harvard. But you. 26:59.51 archpodnet Where is it of more park college more park. Yeah. 27:11.34 archpodnet I do that that is the joke and and I'm not just bragging about myself. You know, like like the community college system in general is it's structured to teach rather than research. But again another you know topic for another time. Um man anyway. Doug I just thought that kicked ass and I guess on our our rollout. Um, hope everybody enjoyed it. We now know about what to do internationally in the Uk if we ah go there from the United States to get an education and um. We will see you next time and as Chris says we will see you in the field goodbye all right? Yeah, who knows we're still on yak chris. 27:48.52 Doug Goodbye. So Chris is gonna be so just when I did that right? yeah. Yeah, yeah. 28:02.17 archpodnet Still. Ah yeah, this is gonna be a long one. So what it stuck to its topic and it was interesting. Um I doubt was go be like what the hell. 28:08.21 Doug I got he said look at this whole 28 minutes law re what metize odd ah you guys. But we're gonna get scolding in the slack channel. 28:16.33 archpodnet But but you know what? dude it's two feet it's just you and me there's like 2 feeds dude how bad can be how bad could be Chris fricking do your job Chris yeah 2 feeds like freaking easy and and we expect to be well paid for this. Okay, we won't be paid by the by the second. So. Like this more money than usual did all right? um.