00:00.00 archpodnet Hello and welcome to the crm archeology podcast episode 287 and I am your standin host andrew kinginkella and I'm here today with only doug and you may be. 00:15.51 Doug Everyone I said I was just saying hi to everyone. Yeah. 00:18.91 archpodnet Hu oh oh you're trying to say hi see already already. There's tension between us stuck um and ah I think we should fill everyone in though the reason why it's just you on me is because everyone else had something better to do what's up with that. You know and I mean leaving Doug and I in a thing I'd like to call the lurch. So here. We are deep in the lurch and we actually though I think came up with a really interesting thing to talk about and um I had class. Yesterday and a student of mine was asking about um, advanced degrees in the u k you know of which I know precious little and so in talking about that right before this show. Um, you know. 01:16.80 archpodnet Doug said hey I work in the U K and I'm like oh yeah, that's great. So I think for this show that will it'll be me just sort of asking doug about what it's like to work in the Uk as an archeologist. What how does the education system work for an archeologist in the uk.ah. How do you bring that experience back if you move back to the United States and so on so Doug. That's what I got I guess I'll just start with ah the question on sort of the advanced degrees whether they they be masters or ph d how does that work. 01:54.56 Doug Yeah, um, actually probably be slightly easier so it'll make a little bit more sense if I just slightly go back? Um, and we start with undergraduate um and then one key thing to sort of understand about working in the UK or coming over and doing school is. 02:02.53 archpodnet Um, yeah. 02:12.51 Doug So it's a united kingdom so technically it's 3 different kingdoms. Um, and they all are semi- devolved plus waless add a little thing in there Wales is not a kingdom. It was a principality it was they conquered way too soon. They couldn't do the union. Um all historical stuff. Um. 02:27.63 archpodnet Right. 02:32.41 Doug But they are in charge of their education system. So the 4 nations of the Uk England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland each sort of control their own education systems a bit similar to how it is in the states with each state. Essentially um. Setting a lot of standards having some slight differences. Um, but you know then you have like sort of federal government where it puts down regulations if you want to accept federal money you have to follow those and most everyone does um but that's kind of key because i. 03:01.31 archpodnet Right. 03:09.90 Doug There are some differences so and the rest mostly u k it's actually a 3 year undergraduate and it's very different than America where you would typically get um, a much broader education. Um. 03:16.72 archpodnet Ah, come. 03:27.35 Doug Ah, you know a liberal arts education is I believe the correct terminology for that and that you know you go to university and you have certain rights you have to do so yeah and you might end up having to do two math classes. Maybe 1 you have to do some sort of english class or up to like you know english 1 or 2 or. 03:32.89 archpodnet Um, yeah. 03:46.42 Doug Yeah, each University will be slightly different. You'll have to do like a sociology or you know you have to do some sort of hard science and you have to sort of mix that together in most of the U K That's not it. You basically jump into um your degree and you pretty much do that You don't usually do. Ah, classes outside of your degree and what's what's required. Um, you could do sort of what's like double honors which would be like almost the Us equivalent of like a double major as it were so you can kind of mix up stuff. Um, but usually people tend to do. 04:18.87 archpodnet Um. 04:24.29 Doug It the same I think the most unique one I saw was probably Tristan who helps run the podcast network I think chemistry and archaeology but usually you actually get something like ancient history or history and archeology. They don't don't actually usually double up that far apart. Ah. 04:29.60 archpodnet Um, ripe huh. 04:40.80 archpodnet Right. 04:43.10 Doug And the difference though is Scotland where the undergraduate is actually 4 years and then just to just to confuse everything and everyone. Technically some of the scottish degrees where the four years are actually called mas along with yes along with um Cambridge and Oxford as well. You can also apply to have your undergraduate actually be called an m a it's still a bachelor's. 05:07.70 archpodnet Um. 05:17.50 archpodnet Bright. 05:19.71 Doug Um, it still ties into this whole. Ah yeah, ah year well back when the UK was part of the eu but this international bachelorette. It's this whole system of being able to like align all the all the different countries and yeah, make sure their degrees are fairly similar. So if you got a degree in say italy it would count in France. 05:34.19 archpodnet Right. 05:39.55 Doug And so that's somewhat standardized it and it somewhat standardizes it to America as well. So even though and like Edinburgh like Scotland has that as well where there's like the scottish m a like Edinburgh. Um, even though it's a 4 year it's it's all bachelors. It's it's the equivalent of a bachelor's but. 05:48.67 archpodnet Oh. 05:55.66 archpodnet Right. 05:58.67 Doug It's it's very different and then like shockingly ah time as well. So all Andrew it's it's been like almost god we're we're starting to get or at least 15 years maybe 20 years since I was in my undergraduate. 06:08.23 archpodnet Um, yeah. 06:16.59 archpodnet Ah, yeah. 06:18.61 Doug And it's ah is it 16 or eighteen weeks typically in the us for like a semester. Yeah, ah. 06:23.78 archpodnet per per semester um it actually depends you you can have I think I think 16 ish is more typical. It's like sixteen and a half is is a very typical semester. 06:31.15 Doug Then yeah I also remember like some people can also do like try semester things where you do like? yeah. 06:39.57 archpodnet Yes, quarters they call it quarters even though there's 3 and that but you count summer as a fourth so we have our own oddities. You know on our side. 06:51.54 Doug Yeah, but generally in the U K Ah the semester so they they do do like a sort of ah split in half um semesters basically though not quite. 07:07.84 Doug They don't always quite break exactly how we do it and they have a book like their easter break. Ah like they actually call it easter break and it can be several weeks long it's it's a bit different system but it's also about 10 to twelve weeks 07:11.16 archpodnet Ah. 07:16.12 archpodnet Right. 07:23.50 archpodnet What sorry what is what is 10 to twelve weeks okay right 07:25.30 Doug So it's actually a semester in the u k um, and then also like you know again I'm going I know like across the United States was there 8000 colleges and universities. Everyone's gonna be slightly different but you know. 07:37.33 archpodnet Yeah. 07:41.99 Doug Ah, credit hours is a fairly common one so you know in the us if you had 3 credit hour class. Um, that meant you were going to be in class for you know, 3 hours a week usually generally yeah um, less of course you did something like art studio and then. 07:53.91 archpodnet Um, right. 08:00.68 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 08:01.59 Doug Just double that. So if it's three credit hours you're actually doing six I know some some degrees to it slightly different, but that's a probably pretty general rule. Yeah for the equivalent you might actually only spend a hour a week in and the u k. 08:08.69 archpodnet I Think so that's that that's true. 08:20.97 archpodnet Ah ha. 08:21.30 Doug So like it's a lot shorter and it is a lot less like you just have so much less time. Um, face-to-face like you know because usually you know if you're doing like sixteen credit hours you'd probably be. 08:33.76 archpodnet Um, yeah. 08:40.12 Doug In class you're about sixteen seventeen hours a week or something like that. Um, in the UK you might you might push 10 Maybe. 08:44.88 archpodnet Um. 08:49.25 archpodnet Dude I don't I see I didn't know any of this and I just find this whole conversation fascinating like I love all of this doug because students have asked me. You know for decades at this point about some of this stuff and I would just sort of mey mouth it you know I'd be like ah well I think and I knew none of this this this has just been a um you know this black hole mystery to me. So I think this is awesome I have 1 or 2 questions just in terms of okay so. If in the UK system you're kind of specializing very early. It sounds like right? you're going for your bachelor's and it's very specialized is the understanding that um I learned how to read and write in in high school like is that like. 09:20.61 Doug Yes, yes. 09:32.94 archpodnet Is that the understanding like I already know how to write because I got that in high school. So I'm going to college to focus. 09:38.51 Doug Yes, Also there's different again sounds super confusing for different people. Um, because technically some parts like college is actually. 09:48.91 archpodnet Um. 09:54.18 Doug Most people essentially finish high school at 16 and then spend the last two years which sometimes is called college even though you also have like so there's like Edinburgh college as well. Um, you know, but sometimes like that and basically you study for these. 09:57.82 archpodnet Um, ah right. 10:10.94 Doug Various exams and Scotland has a different name for it and England has a different name for it. Um, and you take these ones and then basically your entire university career is based off of these exams and you you might take like so you might take a big ah deep exam and like. 10:13.34 archpodnet Right. 10:29.31 Doug History and English and math and geography and underwater potter basket weaving something you know? Um, ah you you take so many of them and then you you know you get like an a or B or you know various different scores again. 10:46.89 archpodnet Um, pray. 10:47.51 Doug Slightly different in Scotland because you know it was a union in 17 I was 7 and they were able to keep their own education system. Um because it was a union. Not a conquest. Um, but ah yeah, basically they do that and so. 10:55.75 archpodnet Um, right. 11:04.79 Doug Um, imagine like if it was the AcTs or sats. But you've actually studied for like 2 years for them and they're much more intense actually oh um I mean that was becoming a thing I'm pretty sure it's still a thing s a t twos um is that still a thing. 11:10.81 archpodnet Yeah. 11:21.67 archpodnet Um, um, they I've never heard it called that. But but we have we have the SATs and then um oh god for grad school. There's the the um the gres I think is that right. 11:23.70 Doug You guys. 11:35.31 Doug Oh well, no ah, a SATTwoS was a thing at least you know about twenty years ago where you could take like a history sat test thing and sometimes universities would count it as ah, ah as a college credit. 11:42.71 archpodnet Um. 11:49.55 archpodnet Oh yeah, we call those Ap tests advanced placement so you take the Ap test. That's what the that's those are called now. 11:51.82 Doug Level or yeah, yeah, well so actually different slightly different than ap because ap definitely if you got it. Um, most schools would ah accept you know on that 5 point scale like a 3 or 4 or 5 Um, yeah, so. 12:07.95 archpodnet Um, yes, yes. 12:10.95 Doug It's it's harder to say but then like universities. Basically they offer places and they'll be like oh all, right? if you got out of your 4 test 4 a's and 1 b will will give you a place at Oxford well they'd be like you need you need 6 of these a level. Um. 12:24.32 archpodnet Um, right. 12:29.31 Doug A's and you know all these different things but it is a lot more intense at that level so you like your exams again to University are more intense. Um, so I did Masters in Ph D So I actually ended up doing some teaching as well. I I. 12:31.53 archpodnet Um, ah sure. 12:48.65 Doug I'm going to piss people off. But I think they think much more higher themselves thinking that their students are much more advanced coming in and don't need a liberal arts. Um, and you do see it especially with like um, what what? they'd call first years we'd call freshmen. 12:59.32 archpodnet Um. 13:04.87 archpodnet Right. 13:07.26 Doug Um, yeah, not I I would say that they're almost at comparable level. Um to the us um, maybe a little bit better in that they might be there and they might not. But honestly to be to be 100 % honest with you. Ah I do think liberal arts they should be taking more classes and developing better writing skills. Um or better science skills a more broad-based education to help with those areas. 13:29.44 archpodnet Yeah. 13:36.31 archpodnet Ah. 13:39.16 archpodnet Yeah I Totally agree I've always been that I've always been a fan of that I understand the critique of people just taking ballroom dancing as their major and then coming out of college and huge college debt with like no skills I totally get that critique. 13:44.32 Doug As to. 13:55.00 Doug 3 13:58.18 archpodnet But I never want to throw the baby out with the bathwater I want to be like no dude like I want I want it all you know I want hey, let's have a strong liberal education and at the same time a focus that also has you know skills and that kind of thing on top of it. So um. This did this is fascinating. Um, we're we're already at the break for the first bit so when we come back more on ah learning in the u k so we'll see you guys in a minute. 14:22.73 Doug This.